Freedom is "to be free IN all conditions..."
It is NOT "to be free FROM any of them!"

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Over-Manipulation and Conditioning


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Issues covered in this article:
Cause & Effect
Survival of a Species (e.g Dairy and Beef Cattle)
Just for fun, click the 3 topics above!

Anna: When I read the following on a website: 
"Our relationship with cows is complex. After years of exploiting this species for its milk and meat, most of our society has allowed the droning echoes of such long-held practices to dull our sensitivity for these living, thinking creatures. We may become outraged at the extinction of birds, frown at the mistreatment of cats and dogs - but how many of us extend our sympathies to cows? Cows and steer provide what is considered the staple meat for many humans. So much so that rain forests are being cleared at alarming rates to make room for ranches to raise them. And while we don't often like to think of it, our treatment of them in the name of profit and efficiency has created tremendous horrors for these beings - these feeling, wise beings who are very much our equals.” (Website link not available anymore.)
my tears swelled and I cried. There is a moral judgment in this, yes? But is there not also support for the one who has no voice, or is being swallowed up? Where do I go with this?

Wim: Anna, you can let it be!
However, do increase your insight and understanding while excluding the dramatization and dramatizing that people use as they play on and with their fellow human being's feelings of their un-processed sadness.

The tears (yours) are there because of moral connections (conditional "If..., then..."s) that are related to humans beings (you and the writer of the quoted article) having been sadly and unfairly manipulated.
Those tears are to be expected of course and they are understandable... BUT only happy tears are REAL, unhappy tears are all based in and on the illusive games (If..., then... conditionalizing) that are being played on people to make them unequally subservient or at least dependent and wanting.

Remember: only what's positive is real, anything negative is based on illusive games by others who want/need artificial uni-lateral dependency.

To return to the topic of the quote above :
Husbandry is not based on artificial unilateral dependency. The invention of husbandry and agriculture (including small and large scale gardening) comes from a very deep insight (gained about 12000 years ago) into the laws of nature, and survival of the species - ANY SPECIES - plays a role in that. Notice that in agriculture (not to be confused with agribusiness) and husbandry the species ALL survive - even if in a differently conditioned format: it is not unilateral. There are mutual benefits to all species involved in husbandry and agriculture: the human species, the various animal species and the various plant species.

Of course we have emotional feelings for those animals that are experiencing over-manipulative (unneeded and unwarranted) actions by other species, in this case the human species. Remember though conditioning (When..., then... conditioning) is not the same as conditionalizing (If..., then... conditioning - the carrot or the stick), so it is hard to figure out when over-manipulation actually occurs. One thing is sure, dignity and respect are lost with over-manipulation, but it is not for humans to decide what that dignity is and when respect is lost, it is the affected species that is sensitive to that (how that works is a topic that I will still get into) and if needed it will set it's own survival program in motion, some actions of which will carry retaliatory characteristics.

Over-manipulation ought not to happen, but still... the species undergoing it does not suffer (at least not in a human-like emotional manner), all species are "DNA programmed" to deal with over-manipulation, it is part of a species' survival guarantee. About suffering, plants and animals have a mind, but NOT a mind that CAN suffer, only humans can have such perverted minds which  happened after humans invented torture, Schadenfreude and carrot-or-stick manipulation or conditionalizing. (Again about 12000 years ago)

An example:
The captive Orca/Killer Whale named "Tilikum" who recently killed a marine-park trainer in Florida before a live audience did not suffer in the human sense from its captivity, it experienced being over-manipulated and hence it did what it had to do to survive !
Animals don't allow and cannot have that survival power taken away.

Conditional over-manipulation is of course unfortunate and ought not to take place (there are human laws against it) and it is important that the human species is sensitized to notice when it occurs and then acts to prevent or correct it. But corrective action should not come from sentimentalized reactivity... Compassion? yes! But compassion has no tears, compassion only has love, insight and understanding.

Anna:
But Wim, what about my tears that welled up and my weeping?

Wim: The sympathetic sad tears are a memory or a reaction to your own current or past unfortunate states of being negatively and sub-ordinately conditionalized.

It is possible in our life's functionality to stop our own conditionalizing OF others, and only WHEN it is our function (which is not something we can choose, but that is another topic) can we help others to stop conditionalizing their fellow human beings.

Conditioning though, cannot be changed at all, the laws of nature prevent that. We can move away from conditions and conditioning, we are after all mobile. Unilateral conditionalizing though prevents that moving away, conditionalizing hampers one's mobility, it attempts to stop freedom.

Anna: May I ask please a little more clarity between conditions, conditioning and conditionalizing. Conditions are different than conditioning, yes? and still different from conditionalizing?

Wim: Conditions are the givens of physical life, every moment in time at any which place has a set of conditions.
Conditions come with life (Latin "con" is with), they are life's givens ("-ditions" derives from the Latin "dare" to give).
Conditions are the facets of "god-given" reality.
(The word "data" literally means "god-givens". The etymological root for data is the Sanskrit word for God, as in "God the the father", the giver of life. See daddy.)

Living in the "here and now" means accepting conditions as they are, without questioning.
Nobody can change conditions, you can wait for conditions to alter through time,  you can  move to other conditions in a different place at a different time, (again, our mobility enables us to) but if one has difficulty with one set of conditions then even, while waiting for or moving to a different set of conditions, one tends to always find a different set of comparable difficulties... no matter where one goes, one seems always accompanied by one's own "hurt" self.
Having difficulties with conditions is a obsessive disorder that develops over time with pretty well everyone, and unless one discovers its origins, this disorder will always pop up even in the most advantageous set of conditions.
Being "here now", helps the disorder to disappear.
By undoing one's problematic past through re-processing "aged" bottled up emotions, charged memories and thoughts in a problem-ridden pseudo "here and now", one helps oneself to come closer to a "free of charge" liberated "here and now" and stay in it.

Conditions are good per-se, they are what they are, always, no matter what they are. (If they seem not good, that would be based on borrowed, inherited negative judging.)
Conditioning is something that nature does by its very nature, nature cannot do anything else but condition, that is the law of physics, life and existence, cause & effect...: "When.., then..."               
It IS physical law but ALSO spiritual law, because spirituality is nothing but a less dense form of physicality.

So nature (animal nature, plant nature, human nature -when not messed up, mineral nature, universal nature, etc.) works through conditioning, which is an unconditional and unquestioning responding to any given conditions as they are.
It is the nature of nature to follow through by adapting with reactive results, "action-reaction".
But... its reaction is not anti-action or counter-action, it is follow-through action: when something gets hot, it expands, when water boils, vapor forms, when a billiard or pool-table ball is hit is follows through... it does not strike back!
There is no arguing in nature (only in the de-natured human).
There is actually no choice in nature, only humans TRY, ATTEMPT to  MENTALLY not accept conditions (this is what mental illusion is), but such non-acceptance does not make any conditions go away.
Conditioning is "When..., then...": when something happens, a natural response takes place, there is no choice. This is the wonder of cause and effect. "Cause and effect" is a wonderful trait of nature.
Free will is based on living fully in accordance with cause and effect.
To unconditionally accept nature's conditions leads to the reclamation of one's original nature and free will.
Conditionalizing on the other hand uses "If..., then...", it is not "When..., then...".
"If..., then..." includes optionality, it is not dependable, it only SEEMS dependable.

Examples:
1. When you consider the statement "If you are bad, you will be punished..." it is not at all a sure thing that punishment follows... because...
  • if you are not caught being bad, you don't get punished,
  • if you are bad but you can convince that someone else caused you to be bad that other person might get punished,
  • if you were bad and it was noticed, the person who would punish you might be too busy doing that,
  • etc.
2. When you consider the statement "If you are good, you will be rewarded." it is again not at all a sure thing that reward follows... because...
  • if you are not noticed being good, you don't get rewarded,
  • if you are good, but someone else can convince the "rewarder" that you were not good then you might not get rewarded,
  • if you were good and it was noticed, the person who would reward you might be too busy doing that,
  • etc.
This "If..., then..." thing is conditionalizing, it is not conditioning, it is not nature, flowers do not argue with the sun when it is hot, people do or don't, depending...

Conditionalizing always includes judgmentalism, which is a very changeable thing: what is good can at some point be or become bad, what is bad can at some point be or become good, etc.

Anna: Wim, here is something that still irks me: It seems to me that when I am in the presence of chickens who in winter are not fully feathered and are standing in pools of their own muck, as far as respect and dignity, is quite different than chickens who are fully feathered in surroundings that don't stink, and the ground is dry, and when sleeping their house also doesn't stink and their bed is clean. Their only retaliation is to die.…

Wim: Those chickens you are talking about may be over-manipulated or not...
Conditions ARE conditions and like I stated above, chickens will adapt, that adaptation though will involve the survival response of the whole chicken species. This adaptation will negatively affect the over-manipulators and can thus eventually cause epidemics or pandemics like the avian flu (in China, Europe, the Americas).
This is similar to what happened to over-manipulated pigs in Mexico (the swine flu) and the rest of the world, or over-manipulated goats in Europe (Islamic influence) causing the extremely dangerous (though contained) goat flu in Europe and Islamic countries.
This by the way is a "When..., then..." response, according to the laws of nature.


The nature of Nature is to condition.

The pseudo-nature of the de-natured human is to conditionally condition.

To unconditionally accept nature's unconditional conditions leads to the reclamation of one's original nature and free will. 
 
~~~

Comment by Mitesh:
"I too agree that there is no arguing in nature, but I didn't understand this statement clearly "There is actually no choice in nature, only humans TRY, ATTEMPT to MENTALLY not accept conditions (this is what mental illusion is), but such non-acceptance does not make any conditions go away." Could you please explain it bit more for me." 

Wim:
  1. Humans can move away from conditions because humans are mobile, and 
  2. Humans can change conditions because humans are creative... 
But that mobility and creativity can only take place successfully when any condition is at first fully accepted AS IS. You see, when a condition is not accepted, clear and comprehensive insight into a situation is impossible. When that is the case mobility and creativity don't work successfully...

21 March, 2010 

Comment by Barry: 
"If . . . . Then" to "When . . . Then"
Just by staying in the moment. 
I have been pondering this and I am starting to think it works. At least my argumentative edge has calmed to an allowing others to seemingly tread. gulp (what will be left) What will follow this post is one of my rambling responses that is me taking a shot at what I think you are saying. Then reread and see if I am getting or understanding your take - Wim. 
This response is probably better and may stand alone. After all this started with reacting to how we treat our dominion. Judged to be poorly by the faint at heart and of concern to the compassionate. Now to morph my thought flow head unload to a bridge to your thought form. Thanks for the challenge and the education. You make me work it. My mind has taken a hit. 
Waiting for the When of it all and it is already here. Whats a mind to do. Now then. Might I rescue those of us that suffer when animals are abused or Let It Be. 
"Forgive me as I have forgiven those who trespass against me."

28 March, 2010 

Comment by Barry:
Neither Here nor There...
Trying to find Our Way...
Is it not true the Buddha died of food poisoning: Just a thought. We might consider - he chose to go. Reportedly his back was hurting and getting around was getting difficult. Why not ascend, instead. 
We are told - The physical body might do well to be shed like the skin of a snake. Come to think of it Christ ascended after his body was seen as lifeless. Did he take that tormented cloak of flesh along? 
They say in the Astral realm we can manifest the body of choice, age of choice, and cloak of choice. I am starting to feel that might be for the advanced. Mobility: Let’s consider the Buddha as all knowing and could have chosen to move to a better environment to eat a healthier meal yet did not. 
We can say Christ knew staying at that garden spot that night would be his demise. To know what is in store yet take a stand might be our contribution. To achieve neutrality is to look around and say how do I want to participate in the grand scheme of things. 
If choice was involved: Buddha moved on to a better place, Christ took a stand and allowed others to manipulate his empowered neutrality. In the end we are in awe of the myths and truths that remain. 
Can we improve our lot, can sentient beings improve their order, or is "What Is" the hand we were dealt. Many of us feel blessed and empowered in that we have an ability to be at the right place at the right time. 
If I were a pig with my luck I would probably be on a local hilly farm in Michigan overlooking a beautiful valley. No factory farm from where I sit now. I am not saying my future will not have any suffering in it yet I have thankfully been blessed. When stuck I have done well learning my lessons and got back on my tricycle and moved on. Is it true if I stayed stuck, my mobility would be diminished? 
No matter how free we are now, we can get stuck; and that stuckness would/could/can be our prison. Is it not true that many of us on this globe live in conditions that are deplorable? How does one gain the mobility/ability to move on from that condition? We live and learn. We do get conditioned to believe the stuckness that has befallen us. Many seekers want to overcome the feeling of being manipulated by the vicious cycle. Short of that ole birth-death-rebirth cycle let's consider the manipulation of the news media, advertisements from corporations, political propaganda, and religious dogma all designed to keep us in the confines of the theater of the puppet masters. Some have it better then others. 
We middle class in the USA have it pretty nice. Contentment is achievable as soon as we chose to stop buying the latest mobile connecting device and temporarily settle on the one we have. Think of the less-then-middle class or the dire situation in other parts of the world. The walls of containment are thicker with fewer toys for the masses due to greed of the puppet masters. Are those better off - that way - because of some secret code or formula that helped them overcome What Is. I like to think so. 
Are those lacking that code or formula the ones that are traumatized by war, poverty, torture, factory farms. Many of us have access to the codes and formulas and with effort apply the secrets to no avail. Others are blessed and sit on that lotus petal rising above the muck when rising. I appreciate what is said here not to wallow in the travesty of the plight of the masses, "Let It Be", and instead apply compassion to the scheme. 
With that enhanced awareness of What Is we can know our part just by being in the What Is. How do we get that enhanced awareness - by being in the moment and let the connection enhance. Everything else is "What Was" or "What Might Be": Hardly "What Is Happening". 
Is that uncaring? Our passion in the moment is the answer and the entire scheme is knocking on our door. hmm scheme, door, Does that mean that What Is can be changed by a plan and our distractions are keeping us from the Task at Hand?

28 March, 2010 

Wim: 
From "If..., then..." to "When..., then..." 
In the argumentation and reasoning of non-speculative scientific, philosophical, psychological and spiritual propositions, concepts and theories, the use of "If..., then..." is appropriate as no conditionalizing "carrot or stick" manipulative arguments are used in it. (Of course not! :) 
The neat thing is, in any such propositional argumentation an "If..., then..." statement always gets checked against observable reality (and yes, that is even possible in spirituality) to see if it is "falsifiable" or not. When it is not - meaning the proposition has a measurable outcome in nature (physics) - the "If" turns into a "When"!

In non-human nature there is never an if-then relationship between conditions and what they bring forth. 
There is always a when-then relationship: inescapable, unavoidable, predictable and dependable.
Nature's conditions are clear-cut and work without fail: effect follows cause. 
Conditions cannot be argued away or made to look as though they don't exist. 
No mental interference will make them different from what they actually and factually are. 
In human nature or actually in the de-natured human, conditional conditions can not be depended upon, they might be argued away and they can be made to look different from what they are.

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